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 Golden Decks, The Top 5?

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TK
Poison Ivy


Nombre de messages : 23
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 24/02/2011

MessageSujet: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Mar 31 Juil - 12:42

While playing in Lyon, someone ask us what the top 5 decks in Golden Age.

We thought about that and after the tournament we have last week, we decide for this list. This is just a list of the top tier decks, not a ranking: Therey are more or less on the same level.

- Combex
- Just One
- Hulk
- Ultimate Spiderman
- Migga City

COMBEX

DROP: 31

4x blink (MEV)
1x mikado and mosha

4x black thorn
4x puppet master (MOR)
1x gambit (#2, MEV)
1x caliban

4x ahmed samsarra
1x spider girl (MUN)

4x siryn

1x mr. sinister (MVL)

1x guido carosella
4x huntress

1x hercules (MUN)

PLOT: 15

4x enemy
4x straight
4x pathetic
3x death of the dream

LUOGHI: 14

4x brother I
3x xavier school for gifted youngster
3x 31st century metropolis
2x panoptichron
1x soul world
1x slaughter swamp

The deck main winning condition is the combo with Panopticron and 2 Black Thorn. After teaming up Exiles and Checkmate, you can replay Thorn infinite times, killing the opponent with Syrin on turn 5. This combo is actually pretty hard to disrupt: You need Rouge #4 (MVL) to be sure to stop it. Lex #5 (DCL), Scarlet #5 (MOR) and Omnipotence (But it play Death of the Dream) can stop the infinite loop, but you need the odd initiative. Replace effect don't usually work, cause the deck can search for a fresh panopticron with Ahmed, and with pathetic in the way you usually need 3 replace effects.
Again... if the opponent can disrupt this combo, the deck can simply play Mr. Sinister and drop Guido Carosella on turn 6, and Hercules on 7, using them and Ahmed, your drop 6 is usually more than 20/20, that double attack.

JUST ONE

CHAR (24)

4x Boris

4x Black Cat #2 (MSM)
2x Deadshot #2 (The hidden one, that you can recruit for free from your KO pile)

4x Sage #3
4x Doom #3

2x Black Manta

1x Cable #6 (MEV)
1x Human Torch (MCG

1x Richard Rider <> Nova Centurion #7

1x Beyonder

PLOT (33)

4x Underground Movement
4x Bad Press

4x Enemy of my Enemy
4x Straight of the Grave

4x Reign of Terror
4x Mystical Paralisys

4x Messiah Complex
4x Savage Beatdown
2x Death of the Dream

LOCATION (4)

1x Avalon
1x Slaughter Swamp
1x Soul World

We were very impressed, during the Lyon tournament, with the effect a well played Black Cat and Bad Press have in the Golden Metagame. We work on that concept, trying to playing it in a completely dedicated deck, and this is the result. It's pretty strong... I win the Golden Event using it last week.

HULK

CHAR (32)

4x Mastermind Excello
4x Mystique (#1, MEV)

3x Miek
1x Caliban

4x Archangel (#3, MUN)
4x Vision (#3, MEV)
1x Hulk, exiled

4x The Captain
1x Hulk, green scar (MUN)

2x Hulk, gladiator (MUN)
1x Hulk, green goliath (MTU)

1x Hulk, green king (MUN)
1x Hulk, earth-xxx (#6, MEV)

1x Hulk (#7, MUN)


PLOT (21)

4x Enemy of My Enemy
2x Heroes of Two Worlds

4x Hulk Smash
4x Righteous Anger

4x Pathetic Attempt
3x Omnipotence


LOCATION (7)

4x Avalon Space Station
3x The Great Arena

The biggest problems the classic build of Hulk had in Golden Age was:
- Bad MU against aggro deck
- No Caliban against Combo
This build solves the second one, and with miek gives you some very good chance of outrunning aggro on turn 4. The Avalon/Excello/Mystique/Vision interaction is pretty sweet... you usually have 14/15 cards (at least) in hand during your 4th turn. Nasty.
Best thing about this deck is: It doesn't suffer char like Mr. Sinister, Super Skrull, Lex Luthor or Human Torch. The opponent must win in a battle game against you, and that's not easy. XD

ULTIMATE SPIDERMAN

We can't develop nothing more efficent that the list Best Boy played in Lyon. So... we just played that one. We don't use it in our tournament cause we only have 1x of Ultimate Spiderman. ;_;

MIGGA

1st –TK- [Migga City]
3 Mystique MEV-102
1 Mikado & Mosha MMK-020
3 Harley Quin DOR-067
2 Aunt May MTU-001

4 Poison Ivy DJL-094
3 Mad Hatter DOR-069
2 The Penguin DWF-142
1 Caliban MEV-005

1 Pyro MEX-009

2 Blob MOR-077
1 Anne-Marie Cortez MXM-084
1 Rogue MVL-074
1 The Jocker DJL-089

2 Magneto MOR-080
1 Mr. Sininster MVL-229
1 Scarlet Witch MOR-094
1 Super Skrull MEV-252

1 Human Torch MHG-024

4 Pathetic Attempt
4 Straight to the Grave
4 Enemy of my Enemy
2 Usual Suspect

4 Avalon Space Station
3 Lost Island
2 Genosha
2 31st Century Metropolis
2 Savage Land

Pretty much the same I played in Lyon.

This are the top 5. We personally think there are 2 others class of deck you should consider during the playtest:
- The Combos based on Techno-Organi Virus or Sage. They are pretty mush the best decks in the format, but they always lose to Caliban... so we can't consider them for a competitive tournament.
- A class of decks that can easily defeat the 5 above, but are somehow more exposed to hate cards. Right now we can list here: BLACK BAMBOO!, Wolverine Direct, TNNB, Squadron Supreme and a list of The Captain abuse that we develop and calloed "Captain Italy". Here's a list, but we are stilll working on it:

CAPTAIN ITALY

DROP: 12

4x vision (MEV)

4x dr. doom richard rival

4x the captain

PLOT: 48

4x lust for power
4x techno organic virus
4x wave of destruction
4x straight to the grave
4x reconstruction program
4x pathetic attempt
4x null time zone
4x common bond
4x savage beatdown
4x trouble with dinosaurs
2x warp shard
2x body slide
2x we can rebuild him
1x only human
1x flame trap

You basically draw all your deck on turn 5. This deck doesn't really autolose to decks that play Caliban cause you usually play Null Time Zone on enemy of my enemy before the opponent land the 3rd resource.

And... what are your Top 5 Golden Decks?
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vincentjannin
Imperiex


Nombre de messages : 1933
Age : 41
Localisation : Lyon
Team préférée : Avengers, Doom, X-Men, MK, TT, Exiles
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2006

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Mar 31 Juil - 17:42

We don't have a precise idea of the French golden metagame, since the last golden event (without special ban) was 18 months ago. At that time the meta was ruled by TNNB, Exiles and Doom.
Since then we developed new decks very efficient like spider-stall (MUL) or wolverine direct for example.

I hope that DIdaho will include a no bare hold golden event this fall in Paris.

thank you for sharing with us your decklists and congrats for the win.
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TK
Poison Ivy


Nombre de messages : 23
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 24/02/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Mar 31 Juil - 20:39

Mmm could you link me the Doom and Exiles decks?
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Beastboy
Hulk


Nombre de messages : 465
Localisation : Paris
Date d'inscription : 13/08/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 0:15

Doom and exiles decklists were old

- the exiles decklist was WITH blink inside (and with the spanish errata "once per turn" for her, mariko and sage. but we decided to follow council rules: it just killed the deck

- the doom was variant of doom crisis where, basically, everyone played rogue decks, and quicksilver dominated our parisian meta. And doom crisis was a good weapon against quicksilver (doom 3 + meltdown + latveria + reign= game).

Then we discovered tnnb which had a better matchup against doomcrisis so it became our #1 deck.
But since we wernt really playing a lot and we werent aware of some great decks (like virus decks), we thought it was the best.

note:this was mostly for parisian meta, I dont know if this match with lyon meta

During the tnnb time, DIdaho introduced us his neutron anti meta deck. Which totally screwd ALL CONTROL DECK OF THE META (its same build than your "just one deck" but it finish matchups with NEUTRON: your op becomes totally locked down. I ve got a different variant of his deck I wanted to play for golden age, I ll post it later.
The deck was just AMAZING.
However, it was F***D by ALL RUSH DECK. So this deck wasnt playable if majority of players wanted to play tnnb

Afterthat, we discovered power of spiderman which was able to make more than 50% of victory against combo/stall decks, and was able to shut down >80% of rush decks. Imo, its one of the most toolbox deck, because it has good matchups against a lot of decks. I still improving the deck regularly with some great tech cards! I like playing it because its almost like playing checkmate: you really need to think about what will happens to think about best out.
this deck has a lot of ressource, and really rely on the player: for instance, if I was better (and if I knew the deck), I wont have threw to KO'd pile my caliban against BLACKBAMBOO deck on turn 3 (i think alessio had an enormous smile when I dropped it ): I didnt know how the deck worked even with 1 game (since I had a bad hand) so I try the bad strategy. However, this conclusion is very interesting for me: the deck is great and rely on player, so playing it more and more will improve the deck!

Major weakness:
-DIdaho 's deck with good out (like bad press bad press Black cat) is awfull: you ll just oplay with your hand and wont resist to neutron
- Human torch herald : it totally ruin the deck (migga has a great matchup against spider due to this card mostly, however we found some solution to play against, even if they are not so amazing!)


To conclude this post:
- we dont have a real french meta, because we are not so much player to play, and most player doestn play for win but play with deck they like to play (in paris DIdaho and Nicolas for instance )
I dont consider myself and sam in those players xD we try to play deck that win

- we just prooved in previous tournament that spiderman, tnnb and anti meta were good decks.

- if we have to define our meta: I think its like the top 4 of the last lyon tournament

* Well played migga
* Well played spider
* Techno virus deck
* Antimeta
* rush decks
* random decks (and a good one would be black bamboo!)

Imo, best deck are spider, antimeta and now Migga (if the meta is full of spidermans, it gain his place inside!)

Furthermore


- When you talked me about the infninite life deck, we build one of our own. the main problem was stabilty of deck: it happens we dont have the combo on turn 5 and the problem starts with all counter cards! (lex and all his friends). Did it happened to you?

About a really interesting alternative win condition if you play madame web, I would suggest a 3 cards combo deck : 1x Zatanna drop 6(draw entire deck turn 6) + 1 x conjuration (which you will draw with zatanna) + 1 x Captain marvel (pay 25 win the game). this is because if your op has galactus in the deck, he will win the game on turn 9 or 10 even if you have infinite life.

- about the only one deck: how do you win? I know the interest of black cat + sage+bad press but soimetimes its not enough :

* first, your op can be lucky and have all his charracters in hand (and the good one like mr sinster) or curve until turn 8: remember when you played migga with me and I locked all your tutors: you drew the human torch without tutoring and this was game for you (actually it was much more complicated but it was a decisive stuff)

* are the doom surpport enough to calm down rush decks like tnnb?

* also did you try to fight a regular old school avengers reservist deck? xD this is really bad against anti meta decks )


- I dont consider hulk to be in the top 5 of meta decks even if i like the deck


- About Captain italy (GREAT NAME): indeed you can draw your entire deck on turn 4 (if your op doesnt have caliban already in hand), but is it enough to kill? I checked the deck but it really depends what you are fighting in front of you? you dont have an infinite combo like siphon energy!

I see 2 major weakness:
* you throw the deck to the trash if your op shift a caliban drew (not tutored)
* you will almost lose everytime if your op play an antimeta deck or just antimeta cards (black cat bad press)

So i think it really depends of meta but spiderman eats this deck





Now the decklist (by samuel and myself)


DIdaho Upgrade Hybrid

3 Aunt May
4 Spider-Man The Spider
3 Black Cat
1 Caliban
1 Night Thrasher
3 Sage
4 Spider-Man Ultimates
1 Silver Sable (god she s amazing)
1 Spider-Man Zombie
2 Neutron
1 Mr. Sinister
3 Scarlet Spider
3 Pathetic Attempt
3 Nasty Surprise
4 Mobilize
4 Enemy
4 Indebted
4 Underground Movement
4 Bad Press
3 Gift Wrapped
4 Empire State University



Some flaws but major interest is: you get the advantage of an antimeta deck (black cat sage bad press) AND neutron lock, with SILVER SABLE<> GOD (with nasty surprise, amazing), AND you dont lose against rush decks due to the ultimates spidermans!!!! I really like this deck, but it I prefer playing the more regular spiderman because its more consistent: the missing team up can be problematic!



Exemple of doom crisis we now play with samuel


60 Doom Crisis
4 Boris
4 San
4 Doom3
2 Doom4
1 Rictor
1 Jester
1 Wonder Woman
1 Lex Luthor
1 Mr. Sinister
1 Doom6mhg
1 Human Torch
1 Koriand'r
1 Aquaman
1 Psycho-Pirate
1 Slaughter Swamp
1 Latveria
1 Doomstadt
3 Uncertain Legacy
4 Mystical
3 Reign
4 Pathetic Attempt
3 Crisis on Infinite Earth
3 Acrobatic Dodge
3 Mobilize
4 Enemy
1 Time Thief
4 Omnipotence
1 Meltdown




Exemple of Quicksilver we play with sam

60 Quicky
4 Ape X
3 Lockjaw
1 Luna Maximoff
4 Quicksilver
4 Tania Belinskya
4 Poison Ivy
1 Human Torch
4 Mr. Sinister
4 The Great Refuge
1 Dr. Fate's Tower
1 Soul World
4 Bad Press
4 Mega-Blast
4 Windstorm
4 Flying Kick
4 Kill or Be Killed
3 Thanagarian Invasion
4 The Royal Guard
1 Clock Of Nabu
1 B.P.R.D. Signal Device




Syphon katrina

4 x Moonstar
4x Beast (MOR)
1x Caliban
1x Mesmero
4 x Cable drop 2
4x Vision
1 x Rictor drop 4
4x Katrina Van Horne



4 x techno orga
4 x Syphon energy
4 x We can rebuild him
4 x null time zone (good idea)
4 x Carrying the torch
4 x Pathetic attempt
4 x Enemy
4 x Blackbox +/- some losing the argument
1x Meltdown
1x Air strike
1x Have a blast
1x Death of the dream
1x Only Human
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vincentjannin
Imperiex


Nombre de messages : 1933
Age : 41
Localisation : Lyon
Team préférée : Avengers, Doom, X-Men, MK, TT, Exiles
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2006

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 11:48

Beastboy, I really like your new doom crisis decklist. It is well adapted to the current "metagame" (if any)
Thankx for sharing.
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TK
Poison Ivy


Nombre de messages : 23
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 24/02/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 16:16

Great answer man. XD

Citation :
During the tnnb time, DIdaho introduced us his neutron anti meta deck. Which totally screwd ALL CONTROL DECK OF THE META (its same build than your "just one deck" but it finish matchups with NEUTRON: your op becomes totally locked down. I ve got a different variant of his deck I wanted to play for golden age, I ll post it later.
The deck was just AMAZING.

Agreed, is a very great concept. And we actually simply copy the idea from Diderot (:-P), give the man my thanks, and thanks to you: Ultimate Stall and Bad Press/Black Cat decks really "move" our metagame.

Citation :
- When you talked me about the infninite life deck, we build one of our own. the main problem was stabilty of deck: it happens we dont have the combo on turn 5 and the problem starts with all counter cards! (lex and all his friends). Did it happened to you?

About a really interesting alternative win condition if you play madame web, I would suggest a 3 cards combo deck : 1x Zatanna drop 6(draw entire deck turn 6) + 1 x conjuration (which you will draw with zatanna) + 1 x Captain marvel (pay 25 win the game). this is because if your op has galactus in the deck, he will win the game on turn 9 or 10 even if you have infinite life.

We dropped out the turn 4 win. I don't know if it is doable, but we never spend time trying to optimize it. Right now we use this Checkmate build that use the combo like an istant win condition, but can play turn 6 and 7 with a couple of great drop, if the opponent manage to play some hate (When you see lex, you play Mr. Sinister and abuse your activate power during turn 6 instead of searching for the combo).

We have an old list of the turn 4 Panopticron/Thorn/Madame webb combo. It's not that great, but here:


DROP: 28


4x Blink
2x Timebreakers
4x Longshot (exiles)
4x Connie webb
1x Atom (But any costo 1 Jla drop is OK))

4x Black thorn
2x Sage
1x Gipsy

4x Madame webb
1x hal jordan (JLA generic searcher)
1x Ahmed

1x siryn


LUOGHI: 12


4x panoptichron
4x brother I satellite
4x un building


PLOT: 20


4x enemy
4x vicarious living
3x new era
4x teamwork
4x a finer world

I don't remember how often the combo come out on 4... really. XD

Anyhow... our point in building a deck like this is simply to show a fact: The English forum needs to leave the Golden Age errata and ban to players that actually plays Golden.

Citation :
- about the only one deck: how do you win? I know the interest of black cat + sage+bad press but soimetimes its not enough :

* first, your op can be lucky and have all his charracters in hand (and the good one like mr sinster) or curve until turn 8: remember when you played migga with me and I locked all your tutors: you drew the human torch without tutoring and this was game for you (actually it was much more complicated but it was a decisive stuff)

* are the doom surpport enough to calm down rush decks like tnnb?

* also did you try to fight a regular old school avengers reservist deck? xD this is really bad against anti meta decks )

I usually win with the Cable/Manta recurring of Savage Beatdown. Cable is really amazing here, he's a 23 with just one (lol) savage

* That's simply true. But I don't really care if the opponent get his drop, if I can still use Reign of Terror, Paralisys and Death of the dream till turn 5. All the curve decks that we have right now, simply can't stand control without pathetic.
* No. Aggro is the major issue: I can win, but I haven't a great Match Up. This is the most interesting thing that comes out from our last tournament: Our best deck before that tournament have great MU against aggro. Migga/BLACK BAMBOO!/Invisible Touch bring us to the point that no one consider aggro a good choice for a Golden meta, so decks like this (Or a couple of Child Lock version we are building, and some other stuff) can enter a tournament and never being paired against an aggro deck. We'll see in the future... but a rock/paper/scissor type of metagame seems to be born. XD
* Lol! A friend of mine propose the same identical concept, we are trying to adjust avengers reservist list right now. XD

Citation :
- I dont consider hulk to be in the top 5 of meta decks even if i like the deck

But... he's green! He's big! Isn't this enougth to be on top of the metagame? :-o

Citation :
- About Captain italy (GREAT NAME): indeed you can draw your entire deck on turn 4 (if your op doesnt have caliban already in hand), but is it enough to kill? I checked the deck but it really depends what you are fighting in front of you? you dont have an infinite combo like siphon energy!

I see 2 major weakness:
* you throw the deck to the trash if your op shift a caliban drew (not tutored)
* you will almost lose everytime if your op play an antimeta deck or just antimeta cards (black cat bad press)

So i think it really depends of meta but spiderman eats this deck

We usually "draw" the entire deck on turn 5, and that is the kill turn. You have a couple of 4 drop on the field, and play 4x Common Bond, use Bodyslide and you have something like 80 or 90 point of ATK with savage and trouble with dinosaurs.
Caliban don't really kill the deck, even if shifted early. We are working right now to cut off the Vision (For moonstar), so the only card Caliban stop is Techno, you still manage to draw all your deck on turn 5th, is simply a little more difficult.
Antimeta, and aggro, kill the deck. That's the reason I think that deck is a little too easy to stop, even with his resistance to Caliban. But that's not a problem: You need to have a vast array of decks, so you can choose what to play before the tournament (and these metagame analisys is one of the most interesting part in preparing a tournament), there is nothing like an unstoppable deck right now in VS, so I don't need to be unstoppable, I just need to make the right metagame call. XD

Thanks for the decklists: Hope you don't mind if we copy them (It really doesn't matter, we are going to do it anyway. XD)

Superficial thought on them:

- We usually consider "straight" doom a not so good choice in meta. But you know how these things go... you think it's not good, so you don't test it and never really check. 4x of Omni could really change the game. There is really nothing better than psycopirate?
- This version of Quicksilver seems really odd to me. We usually consider that deck to be a "turn 3 or nothing". What's your game plan?
- The Katrina Combo and other decks like that (Like the deck my friends bring to Lyon), is anothe reason to let the european community, that play golden age, to fix that format. Sage needs to be only once per turn, and Techno needs to have "If you play no plot twist this turn".
- 12 search card for the Dideho deck? That's almost 1/4 of your deck, its really that important?

The hot topic on our forum right now is the Child Lock kind of deck... do you think there is a good list of it somewhere? We have a turn 5 win list of exiles somewhere on our forum, I can try to find it if you want.

@Vincent: How often your wolverine direct can win on turn 4? We are working on our list and some feedback from someone already play it could be usefull.
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vincentjannin
Imperiex


Nombre de messages : 1933
Age : 41
Localisation : Lyon
Team préférée : Avengers, Doom, X-Men, MK, TT, Exiles
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2006

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 16:27

The deck I played last tournament in Lyon did more than 50 direct damage at turn 4 only 50% of the time.
I'm still trying to improve the deck and now it works at 60%.


Dernière édition par vincentjannin le Ven 3 Aoû - 11:09, édité 1 fois
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AdC Kage
Haywire


Nombre de messages : 1
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 02/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 16:35

Hi! Everything, I'm Alessandro from Italy, I came to Lyon with Tk and I was the one playing Squadron Supreme in the Random Punks event and the Combo deck Invisible Touch in golden...

I'm gonna reply about the Captain Italy and also the Combex (checkmate x-men with panop combo) because right now I am responsible for that lists and I am doing tests on them Smile

I quote tk's reply, speaking of cap Italy Caliban is indeed a a bad card but doesn't kill the deck at all, not only because usually you can block it on turn three as Tk said some posts ago, but also because lust for power and wave of annihilus (the other two cards that allows you to "draw" all your deck in turn 5) are uneffected from caliban and so two ways on three are safe even against caliban. Our latest version does not play with vision+we can rebuild him (with that 6 spaces we add moonstar, have a blast and transmutation but we are also considering doom bot corps who can change the muligan condition) so caliban is even less deadly against the deck, basically he kills only 4 cards out of 60 and not in every game...

Is indeed true the deck is probably like an auto-lose against bad press+black cat decks, and for that reason we do not consider it a top tier deck like migga, spiderfriends or combex, however against all other decks is really a strong choice.


The Combo deck with panoptichron now that is built with checkmate always can make the combo happen on turn 5, he does not suffer caliban nor rush decks, it is a really strong one, the other list, the one you are speaking about based on madame webb is way less sure of making the combo and a lot more unarmed against other decks. So yes, we had the same problems you are facing to with that deck, we abandoned it since the one with checkmate and x-men is stronger.


You are talking about exiles, tk? And so, here I am...this is our actual list of Exiles-x-men, focused more on doing burn damages, we have another list on the forum (more or less the same, only less focused, there are 7 cards of difference):

CHARACTERS: 31

4x blink
4x timebreakers
4x longshot

4x shadowcat ultimates
4x proteus
4x sage

4x mariko
3x cable

PLOT TWISTS: 24

4x beak saves the day
4x a finer world
4x bodyslide
4x fastball special
4x time breach
4x warp shards

LOCATIONS: 5

3x panoptichron
2x the omniverse
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Beastboy
Hulk


Nombre de messages : 465
Localisation : Paris
Date d'inscription : 13/08/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 19:42

Citation :
but a rock/paper/scissor type of metagame seems to be born. XD
TRUE! And I really like this! (aggro/antimeta/combo) and since antimeta eats antimeta and spidey combine antimeta and anti stall, thats why I decided to play it in Lyon. However, it can become weak depending of the meta



About all your questions

Citation :
There is really nothing better than psycopirate?
Exept a silver surfer + galactus, I think its one of the best if you ve played omnipotence on pathetic, and there is no human torch. This guy z ability is very interesting versus majority of decks (combo or curve), I think ra s al gul is quite old, and dr doom 8(both versions) are funny but not really good!
So if I had to play a drop 8, that would be him :theorically, its a -12 for your op, +12 for you, and power stopper
If you find better in this deck, I would be intested!



Citation :
- This version of Quicksilver seems really odd to me. We usually consider that deck to be a "turn 3 or nothing". What's your game plan?

I share this idea but thats not my main plan. If I had this plan, I would i ve played a QuickSyn version and I dont like it: you can maximize your chance to win earlyer (with quicksin) , but if you miss the "window" you reduce massivly your chance to reduce after turn 3.
Also, planning to kill on turn 5 with more burn (like a quickvoltage) isnt the best for me because you ll lose against combo deck that can kill on turn 3

So reality is:
* a <3turn deck doesnt win constantly and lose after turn 3, Moreover, you will lose against almost all rogue/shit deck that you would have beaten normally
for instance, quicksyn matchup VS squadron supreme: quicksilver usually have advatage in the matchup (as we saw it in the evolution of pro circuit golden age tournaments )but if squadron stays until turn 4, quicksilver wont be able to beat it at all. Quicksin
* a quickvoltage is shit in the meta because almost cant win before turn 4 so will lose
* A quickfate is almost the same because it will kill on turn 3 or 4, and if your op meltdown your amulet, you ll crash.Worse can happen if your op meltdown/jester your cloak and make bad things after!

* so I decided to play Quick invasion, i think its one of the best version because: the version is designed to kill on turn 3 considering all the boost; the version doestn rely on a team up/combo (like quicksyn ) which could be stoped easyly with some tech cards ; thanks to Thanagarian invasion, the deck can kill on turn 4, 5, 6, I also won on turn 7 thanks to her!
I m not saying this version is better than quicksyn but I prefer playing a deck that can win if the combo isnt here on turn 4.
However, the deck must be designed and played for killing on turn 3 , thats why I share the idea!


Citation :
12 search card for the Dideho deck? That's almost 1/4 of your deck, its really that important?

Yes it is.
You must start tuyrn 3 with your team up and some cards to protect yourself. You also must put a perfect curve on field to win (black cat, sage, SS and neutron), so you ll need some tutors. Also, a Spiderman deck cant be played with less than 8 tutors since you need to search for some spidey again and again, so 12 seems to be the minimum for me in this deck, We were playing more (call in a favor) but its shit.
The Empire State University is also a good help to the deck!

The only card that can be discussed would be Gift wrapped IMO. we put her back in this deck because the deck is a little bit weak against tnnb and it helps a lot!


Ive got a crappy Child here

4 Alfred
4 Miss T1 mor
1 Professor X T1 mun
4 Mister T2 mun
4 Calendar Man
3 Namorita
4 Barbara
1 Fatality
1 Lacuna
4 Marvel Team-Up
4 Cosmic Radiations
4 A Child Named Valeria
2 Rigged Elections
4 Enemy of My Enemy
3 Vicarious Living
1 Only Human
3 Fizzle
3 Pathetic Attempt
2 Project Liberator
1 Death of the Dream
3 Catcher's Mitt






Also, this deck might be one of the most funny but has a lot of weakness

60 Fantastic Four
4 Alicia Masters
4 Moonstar
4 Boris
4 Doom3
4 Torch6mvl
1 Torch6mcg
3 Thing7
4 Mobilize
4 Signal Flare
4 Origin Story
4 Uncertain Legacy
4 Common Enemy
4 Dealing with the Devil
4 Cosmic Rad
4 Fervent Research
4 Clash of worlds



@ vincent: happy you like this one!

@ Luca and Alessandro: captain italy and thorn deck are 2 great option but they do have a terribke matchup against anti meta....

However, since the best weapon against antimeta is anti meta... I see a Captain France rising from my brain :p




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TK
Poison Ivy


Nombre de messages : 23
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 24/02/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Jeu 2 Aoû - 21:22

Citation :
About all your questions


Citation :
There is really nothing better than psycopirate?

Exept a silver surfer + galactus, I think its one of the best if you ve played omnipotence on pathetic, and there is no human torch. This guy z ability is very interesting versus majority of decks (combo or curve), I think ra s al gul is quite old, and dr doom 8(both versions) are funny but not really good!
So if I had to play a drop 8, that would be him :theorically, its a -12 for your op, +12 for you, and power stopper
If you find better in this deck, I would be intested!

Mr. Sinister and Human Torch stop Psycho Pirate, and these 2 drops are in almost every control, stall or long curve deck (The decks you usually need you 8 drop power, against swarm or combo, simply being at the 8th turn is a winning condition). I personally would play Ra's instead of Pirate in almost all the games, if I had to choose between your options.

But I would probably go Darkseid(Dark God)+Endgame, I guess (With Lativa is an 8th turn win). When we think at the #8 we usually think at Jean Grey #8 (We play lot of Avalon/Slaughter in our deck, and you can go infinite recursion with Jean). Sentry is good, too (MUN, Better stats and not stoppable by Mr. Sinister). Even Cyclops (MEV) cause he can give you the burn you need to close the game off initiative. My Opinion, obviously.
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Beastboy
Hulk


Nombre de messages : 465
Localisation : Paris
Date d'inscription : 13/08/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Ven 3 Aoû - 11:32

Sentry can stopped by lex.
I usually dont have sinister and torch in front of me . Actually since i always drop my own sinister, and i usually ger down my ops one, i like playing psycho because its old school!but if you want the most big and almost unstopable drop 8, try Cable 8 from mev, its stats are
Also really consistent and you can win a free boris ol
Turn 8 with the shift ability rarely!
! We played it before. I think its more a matter of preference.

We chose psycho versus ra s because when they fight each others, psycho will eat ra s

. I dont like to pkay a 2 combo cards on turn 8 with darkseid....

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vincentjannin
Imperiex


Nombre de messages : 1933
Age : 41
Localisation : Lyon
Team préférée : Avengers, Doom, X-Men, MK, TT, Exiles
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2006

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Ven 3 Aoû - 12:18

@ Beastboy: Why did you choose not to include 1 copy of Caliban in your Doom crisis build? I think you should add 1 to stop TOV / Vision decks.
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Hulk


Nombre de messages : 465
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Date d'inscription : 13/08/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Ven 3 Aoû - 15:57

Yeah actually caliban IS inside! sorry, it might not be the latest update but he is inside IRL for sure. I dont remember what i removed (maybe 1 san or 1 mystical paralysis), also after Lyon's, we removed Rictor to put a super skrull!
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TK
Poison Ivy


Nombre de messages : 23
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 24/02/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Ven 3 Aoû - 16:06

If your opponent has Mr. Sinister there is a chance your 8th drop can't do anything, but the opponent lex will never effect you, if you always play your Mr. Sinister: You can always use Sentry, in any situation, and he's actually a better choice against control decks, IMO.

Anyway, it's not the choice on a single drop that change the competitiveness of the deck, so we can simply agree on disagree. XD

Super Skrull is a blast. XD

@Vincent... do you ever try to ask for an errata on Techno or Sage on the English forum? It's pretty annoying all this Caliban or lose situation... there is a couple of good decks out there that don't play enemy, I like them and I would gladly play them in Golden if not for all this combo madness...
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vincentjannin
Imperiex


Nombre de messages : 1933
Age : 41
Localisation : Lyon
Team préférée : Avengers, Doom, X-Men, MK, TT, Exiles
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2006

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Ven 3 Aoû - 16:55

No TK, I never asked for errata on TOV or Sage. In Lyon, nobody play TOV decks so we don't suffer from these cards!
The American are very relectant to errata and since they don't play anymore in real competitive environment, I'm not sure they will understand the need for these errata.

Re Doom: Sentry MUN and Cable seem very good alternative for the 8-drop.
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Beastboy
Hulk


Nombre de messages : 465
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Date d'inscription : 13/08/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Ven 3 Aoû - 20:43

psycho pirate 2 fresh 4 U !!

Nvermind, I just like playing it but I agree, depending of the meta (especially if you consider some doom crisis and some migga, and not the meta I play against like spidey/rush decks) psycho isnt the best!
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MessageSujet: Re: Golden Decks, The Top 5?   Aujourd'hui à 11:07

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